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Topic: Please help me understand MidiYoke better (Read 1620 times) |
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gabriels
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MIDI-OX Rules!
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Please help me understand MidiYoke better
« on: Nov 11th, 2007, 2:54am » |
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Though I'm somehow able to use midiyoke successfully, I'm really confused about the naming of the two ends of a midiyoke "cable", and I always stumble when trying a new configuration that involves midiyoke.
I've read Jamie's explanation:
"MIDI Yoke is not a normal driver: it operates like a MIDI Patch Cable. It takes any data that shows up at its MIDI Yoke Output port and spits it out of its (same numbered) MIDI Yoke Input port.
This seems to be really counterintuitive to people, but it's the only way that it can work as a patch cable."
But the only way I can really make sense of cables and inputs and outputs is to consider that a cable has two ends... an end that attaches to an output of some device, and an end that attaches to the input of some device.
Am I thinking unclearly when I think as follows?
Midi device ouput ---> >-Input end of Midiyoke "cable"------- ----Output end of Midiyoke cable--> >--Midi device input.
This way outputs plug into inputs, and inputs plug into outputs, be they devices or cables, virtual or real.
Is it just our terminology that's different or am I missing something basic? The only way I can reconcile this in my mind, is that maybe the output end of the midiyoke cable is substituting for the output of the device it attaches to. Then it makes sense to call it an output. Similarly, if the input end of the midiyoke cable is substituting for the input of the device to which it is attached, it kind of makes sense. Is that what I'm missing?
Gabriel
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| « Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2007, 3:05am by gabriels » |
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Peter L Jones
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Re: Please help me understand MidiYoke better
« Reply #1 on: Nov 11th, 2007, 4:54am » |
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MIDI Yoke doesn't connect MIDI devices. That's your basic mistake. Each "end" is a MIDI device, as far as Windows is concerned.
So:
[Software program A output] -> [Out to MY 1 device] .... [In from MY 1 device] -> [Software program B input]
The virtual cable is the bold bit, particularly the "...." part.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2007, 5:06am by Peter L Jones » |
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"...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world." -- Tony Williams
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gabriels
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Re: Please help me understand MidiYoke better
« Reply #2 on: Nov 11th, 2007, 3:33pm » |
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Peter,
What you're saying makes sense in a way! But I still don't grasp the concept of an input being called an ouput.
Doesn't a MIDI device need to have an input and an output...and isn't the definition of an input that it receives input from another device's output (and vice versa for the definition of an output)?
If each end of the virtual cable is a MIDI device, then doesn't each of these devices need to have an input and an output?
So in your example,
->[Out to MY 1 device] would seem to be describing a virtual cable from Software program A output which goes to the input of [MY 1 device]. Why is the structure at this end of the virtual cable called [Out to MY 1 device] rather than just [MY 1 device] which itself should have an input and an output.
The only way I can grasp this is to formulate the following description:
[Software program A output]->###{>-MY 1 deviceA->...>-MY 1 deviceB->}###>-[Software program B input]
The Midi Yoke structure is everything between the curly brackets. I guess this is the equivalent of a cable with a connector at either end.
-> is a virtual output connector
>- is a virtual input connector
### is a virtual midi cable that can serve as an input or output to a MY device at either end of the MY structure (which includes the virtual cable and the MY devices on either end).
... is just another virtual midi cable, no different, really from ### It is used to connect the output of MY DeviceA to the input of MY DeviceB.
MY DeviceA is no different from MY DeviceB. They're tranceivers, essentially, each with an input and an output.
Somehow this satisfies my understanding that all devices need to have inputs and outputs.
I guess the crux of the issue is your definition of the first MY device as "Out to MY 1 device" as if it had no input.
Not trying to be difficult...I just can't grasp your terminology.
Gabriel
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| « Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2007, 3:44pm by gabriels » |
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gabriels
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MIDI-OX Rules!
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Re: Please help me understand MidiYoke better
« Reply #3 on: Nov 11th, 2007, 7:55pm » |
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OK, OK, I kindof get it. Instead of just hooking things up one way and another until things work, I sat with my computer and a keyboard and an external synth and just tried out different combinations in the Midi Devices window.
So I guess it's really only a matter of perspective. I send messages out to one end of a MY virtual cable, and I input them from the other end of the MY cable. You seem to be naming the MY port objects in accordance with the function (in or out) of the port to which a particular end of the cable is attached.
I guess it's ok to say you're sending a message out to a cable, without acknowledging that, to get into the cable, you must have gone into the cable's input. In fact, once you get used to this logic, it's actually simpler to digest.
So, onward and upward. I'll sit with this simple setup until I really understand MidiOx and Midi Yoke.
Gabriel
P.S. I'd love to send you guys some bucks, but prefer doing it with a check. Would you email me an address I can use. Thanks for a program without which I'd be sunk!
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| « Last Edit: Nov 11th, 2007, 7:56pm by gabriels » |
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Peter L Jones
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Re: Please help me understand MidiYoke better
« Reply #4 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 12:57pm » |
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Yep, slightly strange but worth persevering with. You have to be convinced it's right for it to make sense... 
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"...Playing fast around the drums is one thing. But to play with people for others, to listen to, that's something else. That's a whole other world." -- Tony Williams
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Jamie OConnell
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Re: Please help me understand MidiYoke better
« Reply #5 on: Nov 12th, 2007, 5:25pm » |
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The reason the MIDI Yoke ports were renamed to "Out to" and "In from" is because of several user requests. Note that you can custom name the ports inside of MIDI-OX (for use in MIDI-OX), if the terminology bothers you.
Bear in mind that the "Out to" ports do show up in MIDI application OUTPUT Port choosers, and the "In from" ports appear in MIDI application INPUT port choosers, so the designation is really not off the mark.
To visualize what's going on: imagine taking a MIDI cable and attaching one end of it to your MIDI Interface OUTPUT port and the other end to your MIDI interface INPUT port. If you now send data OUT the MIDI interface, it will arrive back at the MIDI interface INPUT -- a hardware loopback. MIDI Yoke is equivalent to the MIDI cable in this analogy.
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| « Last Edit: Nov 12th, 2007, 5:31pm by Jamie OConnell » |
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--Jamie
Music is its own reward.
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